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Erin Ann McBride
Tuesday, June 18 2013

Survey about LDS Singles Reveals Surprising Results

By Erin Ann McBride Notify me when this author publishesComment on Article
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Single and married members of the Church see the challenges facing singles in a very different way. In a survey of Church members, singles overwhelmingly provided a few very specific answers, while the married respondents only mentioned those issues a few times, while giving very different responses.

With this disconnect is it any surprise that we, as a general church membership, struggle so much to include and help our single adults? I hope that the following survey results and commentary will help you better understand the needs of the singles, and with that knowledge, create more effective singles programs in your area.

The survey was posted in various LDS-oriented Facebook Groups such as, “LDS Midsingles of the World,” plus on several wards’ email lists. In all, there were 675 survey responses. The answers are a bit skewed due to the large number of singles that responded, but that only helps provide a greater insight into the challenges of the singles.

Of the 675 responses, 625 individuals reported that they are active members of the Mormon Church, 48 are inactive, and 5 were non-Mormons.

Question: Are you now married, widowed, divorced, separated, or never married?

Married 143 (21%)
Widowed 9 (1%)
Divorced 136 (20%)
Separated 4 (0.6%)
Never married 379 (56%)

Question: How old are you?

18-21 5 (0.7%)
22-25 38 (6%)
26-30 99 (15%)
31-35 192 (28%)
36-40 185 (27%)
40-50 110 (16%)
50+     46 (7%)

Question: If married, or previously married, how old were you at the time of your marriage? (If married more than once, please enter age at time of first marriage.)

18-21 91 (31%)
22-25 108 (37%)
26-30 67 (23%)
31-35 21 (7%)
36-40 3 (1%)
40-50 2 (.7%)
50+     1 (.3%)

Question: If married, or previously married, how many times have you been married?

1 time 246 (86%)
2 times 35 (12%)
3 times 4 (1%)
4 times 1 (0.003%)

Question: If you have never married, do you intend to, or hope to marry someday?

Yes 388 (99%)
No 5 (0.01%)

Question: If you are single, would you say that you have intentionally postponed marriage?

Yes 49 (12%)
No 377 (88%)

I asked the two questions above in order to dispel the myth that singles don’t want to get married, and/or that they are intentionally postponing marriage. The responses from the singles clearly indicate that they do all hope to be married someday, and very few have ever postponed marriage.

Question: According to the National Survey of Family Growth, the median age for women to enter a first marriage (in the U.S.) is 25.8 years old (of women who marry). But only 44% of women will marry by the age of 25. In your personal experience, do you find this to be true within the Mormon culture?

Yes 241 (36%)
No 434 (64%)
Other (please specify) 90

A sample of the written responses to this question-

It seems if a marriage does not occur by 25 or so, it just doesn't happen, or not for 20 plus years.

I find they are younger.

I'm not sure-when I first married we were all getting married quite young-now my brother is 33 and still not married and now imagining life again and no one even seems to be real focused on marrying.

It seems to me that most Mormon women are married by 23.

I tend to socialize among older singles so it seems like a large number marry later but I think that may have to do more with my proximal bias among my friends

I think the median age is younger, and higher than 44% marry by age 25.

I think that there will be a fast growing number of unmarried Mormon women, due to the huge imbalanced gender ratio. Most YSA wards are 2:1 or even 3:1 women.

The numbers for Mormon culture are leaning more and more towards the national standard for first marriages. More people are putting it off until college is done. With the new age requirements for missions I feel that the age number will decrease for women.

The responses to this question were of particular interest to me. If you review the responses to the question regarding respondent’s age at time of marriage, you will see that 68% of respondents were married before the age of 26.

Question: If you have never married, what do you perceive to be the biggest challenge for LDS singles keeping them from marriage?

265 written responses were given. Here is a sampling. The answers provided below were the “every third response” in the spreadsheet, and not selected for content.

Lack of men! Who is there to marry?! If they are there, they are either addicted to porn or video games. We are raising a generation of boys that never grow up.

Mormons don't know how to date, just hang out. Pornography addiction. Men not being interested in women. Mormon scale of attractiveness

Inability to find someone who they feel valued, trusted, and loved by. Fear of inability to meet expectations of future spouse--not measuring up.

No suitable dating opportunities

Men come home from their missions at (now) 20….Meanwhile, women older than 20 and single are perceived as left overs, by 25, old, by 30 spinsters because of the male population for the reasons mentioned previously.   As a result, the women become more and more accomplished and therefore more and more intimidating and ultimately not the sweet, young thing the 20 year old had in mind as the "perfect" lds girl

It is no longer a priority, people would rather hang out, go to parties, on cruises, etc then be married.

Guys don't seem to want to commit or ask girls on dates. Or there just seems to be a lack of worthy priesthood holders (on the east coast).

trust, some people will not open up to others

not having quality men to marry

Meeting single LDS men

Economic downturn, unrealistic expectations, looking for lust and not sure how to find love

Lack of dating opportunities

The ratio of men to women.


  1. Do you have a source for this survey? Or is this something you did? Do you have a source for the permission to operate a mid-singles program supposedly being authorized by the Church?
  2. Where was this survey conducted? In the US? Online? I think for the survey to be acceptable, it must include views from Mormons across the world, not one localized country.
  3. Being the mother of several children in this catagory I will make this many people say why aren't you married and/ or I have a brother/sister for you to meet. It's very hard when there are so many matchmakers out there pushing you back and forth. Men especially don't feel comfortable with this.
  4. In the church, the problem for both genders is generally romance addiction. See the book "We" by Robert Johnson.
  5. Why does it matter if the survey is "official"? its amazing that ANYONE is asking these questions! I can see why men go inactive more than women but it is hard for both. l hate going to church and being reminded what a failure l am because l am single (in mid 50's) and not by any blatant ostracizing...just by not fitting in. l still go to church because of the Atonement not because it makes me feel better and uplifted. and l certainly have given up on finding and eternal companion there. Thank you for showing me that others feel the same all over the world, altho l am so sorry.
  6. When I joined the church in high school, I was a shy, nerdy guy who had no clue how to socialize with girls. One girl took an interest in me and her efforts helped me learn how to be comfortable with girls. I eventually went on a mission, returned home to date lots of girls in college and marry before graduating. My three single sons (2 SA and one now mid-single) remind me of me when I joined the church. They have kind hearts and strong testimonies but have no real clue how to relate to girls. I wish some kind single woman would look past their current reality to their potential and take them on as a project. I have seen this work for many single women over the years who took a dorky guy and helped transform him into a strong husband, father and priesthood holder.
  7. Thanks for writing this. I often hear the lament in re lack of worthy/active men and the "they're all addicted to porn or video games" but I NEVER hear thoughts/opinions on why "they're" less active/addicted to porn, video games, etc. Nor do I ever hear what those who lament are doing to help these men deal with and overcome those challenges so they can return to being worthy and active members. Was Eve not a "help-meet" for Adam? would not the bonds of friendship and fellowship not be strengthened by the re-adding to the fold of one gone astray? It just seems like too many are too ready to just cast aside those they deem as "broken."
  8. I didn't get married until my mid-thirties, and that was over 30 years ago, so the comments made in your article don't seem surprising to me at all. Years later, as a stake RS president, my own experience led me to be very concerned about the singles in my stake most of whom were inactive. We conducted a survey on how we could help them in Emotional/social/recreational ways, practical/temporal ways, and with priesthood/church relationships. We then, under the stake presidency's direction, took these responses and discussed them with every ward RS and Melchizedek Priesthood quorum. It was a learning experience on both sides of the marriage coin and for both men and women. We hoped opening a dialogue would lead individuals and their ward families to be more sensitive to concerns, and it worked in some cases resoundingly well. We had one older, single sister, a former teacher, who invited a young single sister with two children into her home for Family Home Evening; they formed a bond of mutual support. Home teachers who were doing an exceptional job supporting singles had the opportunity to share their experiences with their quorum members who were reticent in home teaching singles. Singles are not a homogeneous group. There are very different needs to be addressed between the never married, those with small children, those with teens, young grandmothers, older grandmothers, divorced, widowed, etc. Singles programs often hit on activities, like dances, that don't recognize those disparate needs. At the same time that there is diversity among those currently not married, there is also a commonality between the married and unmarried in striving for faith in dealing with a myriad of life challenges, recognizing their individual worth, feeling lonely and misunderstood, and more. Appreciate the dialogue you've started, and I hope we all, whatever our marital status, will provide personal ministry to one another.
  9. It seems that a good portion of the respondents were female. First I want to say that I am not addicted to anything. I don't own any video games nor have I played any sin I was a youth. I have my own business. I am kind and loving. I read and create. Now to be fair and speak for myself here are some reason that men might not "commit" as some might say. I would like to give some of my insight as a brother. I find that the single women in the church are not worthy, dishonest, have unreal expectations, desire more to jump out of plane than take care of and teach children. They are addicted to and highly influenced by virtual reality of romance of 'Pride and Prejudice' and romantic comedies. I find them too sexist and judgmental. No one could meet the the unrealistic standards. The jump to enormous conclusions and often assume the worst. I find that they don't know how to budget, be a team, or share. I find most to be selfish and unwilling to do what it takes to be a real mother and home maker. Most I find that there is a double standard where the woman are at fault. The women are lustful and lack class and refinement. Why would I want to date that. So I ask, why should I commit to this? Thank you for the survey.
  10. I did serve a mission, though my conversion still in process, however the mission field provided me with a strong testimony of the Restored Gospel, the girls in my ward were looking for tall and handsome boys and I have only my testimony to guide me in my search for a girl with similar attitude as mine, it took me a while to find her and to find this girl, I had to get out of my own circle and race and I did marry her in my early 30's. My comment probably does not help you with your challenge; but sometimes that is the price that you have to pay to preserve your believes intact. As for the survey is valid mostly in the Mormon culture.
  11. I became a single LDS male at age 34 after divorce. I can tell you plenty of stories about the ratio of active men to women at this age. I had 3 dates every weekend, two each Saturday. There are more women than men. I went to "mid-singles" temple night, there were 5 men and at least 35 women.
  12. All I have to say is that the responses of the women in here is why men will not date them. Who would want to date a woman who thinks and judges the way I have seen in this article. It's a double standard. This has shown and proved to me what I had come to believe. Judgment of the women. I would not ask any of the respondents on a date. All I feel is pride and judgement from this article. Who do these people think they are? This is why there are no good women to date.
  13. sounds familiar. Most of the communication skills we inherit from out families are weak, Our "how to" methods hve not worked and doing more of what doesn't work, doesn't work. Check out and do the WORK in "Feeling Good Together" by David D. Burns, MD. This is the best book and process that I have read in years. Study out of the best books. This is one that could change unacceptable people into awesome people in all relationships.
  14. I whole-heartedly disagree. While many men, even 70%, may be inactive, the solution does not lie with inclusion from the wards. There lies a fundamental misunderstanding of the Gospel. Shouldn't we be committed and strong enough to withstand any affliction, even living the Gospel even if we were solitary in doing so? We need to figure out how to make that commitment happen, and then I believe a ward that includes everyone would happen naturally... But only when the members discovered their true commitment to the Gospel.
  15. What is being missed here is the effects the teachings of Mormonism. A "worthy priesthood holder" does in no way indicate a good husband. It indicates a "good Mormon". Mormonism IS about family = automatic downgrade on singles. Mormonism teaches spending "eternit with the "perfect Mormon male" rather than Eternity with the "perfect God". The pressures are enormous...and so unnecessary. This is truly a sad story,
  16. One reality is that many church members expect that we will find all the answers via the church. Not so. . We each need to address our own issues: dorky, introvert, extrovert, flops or experts in areas of our lives etc. Get some professional or self help and work on yourself before dating. And don't ask a woman to fix a man's problems or "take him on as a project". Or vice versa. Good grief! "man up" or "woman up" and do the work you need to do before expecting to marry! Secondly, the church isn't perfect and neither are any of its members. It's fluid--always changing. How many times has it changed it's stance on "what to do with singles?", Yet they still opt for dances--"meat markets" where women feel displayed while men look them over and pick and choose. Why not book clubs or professional groupings where you might find someone with some commonalities as you meet together as equals? Here's an idea: why not teach YW and all men in the church habits/traits of a good husband? We teach the YM to be scouts, play ball, and go on missions. NO TRAINING on marriage. We teach girls homemaking skills and marriage--then they marry over-grown scouts who want to continue a life of work, sports, etc. We teach that if you marry you can't or won't need to get a divorce; NOT TRUE! No wonder ward members don't know how to relate to singles. Saying you're divorced is like saying you are a leper. Reality rather than idealism in the Church would go a long way in meeting needs and overcoming so many "single problems" as well as other problems. Marriage doesn't solve all problems. Partners bring personal problems and strive to work on them together. It's not perfect because we aren't perfect. We are WORKING on it. Marriage and parenthood are workshops, experimental labs, "combat zones" where we find out if we are willing to be unselfish for the greater good of someone/something we realize is more important.
  17. Young Single Adults are wonderful in so many ways. To become married both Men and Women have to cooperate. This involves communication. The biggest interrupter to communication is electronic media.... just turn off the cell phone, mini, or other PDA and begin to talk with one another. You will find a gem. Dont for get to go to the scheduled dances and take a partner... group dancing doesnt lead to intimacy. Find a need and serve one another. The future is bright and more easily understood with a loving partner.
  18. I didn't see a question asking for gender. Most of the replies seemed to come from females. I see this as seriously skewed toward female feelings/responses. Unless there is an attempt to obtain the male perspective, and balance it with the female perspective, this article seriously lacks credibility. It seems more like another outlet for unhappy females to grumble about men. This may sound like a harsh assessment. I say, obtain plenty of male perspective, then provide a balanced report.
  19. I can relate to many of the ideas expressed in this article, and as a female would also like to validate the comments made by the males who felt the article was biased. I think males and pornography is worth talking about as long as females and body image is worth talking about. While they are not the same, I think men get slammed about pornography all the time and yet women never have to face up to their addiction about body image (the constant female chatter about losing weight, dying their hair, getting more clothing, etc. etc.). You may feel that it's a long shot relating these two, but women's and men's brains are wired differently and we cannot continue to pretend that women are perfect angels. I'm a women and I'm not a perfect angel. AT ALL. Erin, I do not think you are painting women as perfect, I just think there's another conversation here.
  20. I was married at 30. I made a consistent effort to date, educate myself, and keep myself worthy during that time with the goal of temple marriage in mind. Thankfully, I finally met my wife who was less concerned about my accomplishments, and more concerned about my personal worthiness. The expectations from LDS single women while I was dating seemed unusually high. They wanted their spouse to be everything their father is - but right now. Among older LDS singles, there seems to be an unwillingness to sacrifice and understand that marriage is more a matter of hard work and dedication, than the realization of some happy fairy tale fantasy endining. I saw some of the comments for not being able to find a husband as not committed, not spiritual enough, no quality men. What they really mean to say is - he doesn't have a glamorous enough career, he won't be a general authority in the next decade, he doesn't have comparable advanced academic degrees. My wife understood that personal worthiness and testimony were foremost, and that we could work on the other things. We did just that that and 15 years later we have 5 wonderful children, a successful career, and all of the other things that we could want or aspire to because we worked on them together. My advice to singles, especially older ones, is to find someone who has a solid testimony and isn't afraid of hard work. The other things will happen naturally. Besides, it is much more rewarding to be with your spouse while life's goals are being accomplished than to have a lifetime of goals already met before marriage. Expect great things from marriage, but not as a prerequisite for marriage. If you are 30+ and looking for a husband who is physically fit, ready to become a Bishop or Stake President, and has a prosperous career, you will likely find yourself looking at the husbands of other women who were willing to commit to their husband despite a lack of accomplishments, and then invested herself in achieving greatness in her marriage together with her husband.
  21. Thank you for the survey results and at least giving us a starting point for discussion. While the data is heavily skewed, it IS a beginning. The question is, "Now what to do with it?" I am an active, temple-attending, worthy, EAGER to be married man w/o any major "hang-ups". (No addictions of any kind: yes, that includes porn & video games). I selectively date, however in 3+ years have yet to find a lasting match. That said, I am not bitter, hurt, or even bothered by the way "the church" approaches/addresses the challenge. I'm perplexed by the amount of bitterness I read (and hear) by some of the respondents. I LOVED the post/idea of the former Stake RS Pres who shared a GREAT idea. Gang, we GET to be more positive, loving, and ACTIVE in how we respond to life's challenges. I encourage EACH of us to open to love and leave hurt, judgment, and past tainted views upon the altar of the Atonement. As I have done so, I've found I see so many more bright colors and beautiful people. It will happen for me... it can for you as well.. look for the lesson in the challenge and GROW to it to get through it!
  22. Thanks for getting this out so quickly. I participated as a newly married over the age of 31 so I had the full experience of being a YSA, BYU grad, and experienced the LDS singles scene from 5 different countries and over 2 dozen wards. I will also attest to the pressure that happens to single men to go inactive in that we are made to feel like failures and plenty of church service and leadership opportunities are closed to us because we aren't married. It is part of the patriarchal culture that creates a few alpha dogs while the rest are branded degenerates; and the sad thing is those men start to believe the label and thus starts the addictions. The other thing for singles as a whole is that they are infantalized and many of them buy into it and they expect things to come to them blaming luck, numbers, lack of activities, and other external factors. They also fear looking out of the church for answers. I've had YSA refuse to come to social activities I've organized such as dance lessons, sports, games nights, etc. simply because it wasn't an official church sanctioned social activity! This is not an extreme case, but it demonstrates how the church has raised members who refuse to set out and seek after things with purpose as we are told to again and again in the scriptures. Finding love is something we should do with purpose and if it doesn't look like it's going to fall in our laps go out and get it. There's so many resources today such as Internet dating and conferences that those barriers are lessened than in years past. I definitely love the lessons that come from Isaac and Jacob in Genesis. They were both older singles and they and their families had to do quite a lot, with purpose, in order to get married to the one they wanted. Anyways, that's my soap box. Yes, I am married, but I still keenly feel the pain that comes from being a mid-single male in the church.
  23. As a guy I find that soem women are drama queens, expect perfection, start off financially where their dad left off when the daughter gets married and try to live better then the Jones'. If you are a guy married and succesful is the mold, if you don;t fit that then find somewhere else. I think the Celestial Marriage manual needs to be updated to tackle actual preparation for marriage, like what does your future spouse think about sex? budgeting, are you being abused, emotionally or physically?what do you do if you think your psouse is cheating or real issues. getting married is pushed so heavily that real communication isn't discussed. I am not one bit suprised the divorce level in the church is so high One thing too is if you can't afford to get married then don't. Just because something worked out for Elder So and So of the Seventy in 1956 doesn't mean it will work you today-that mentality has got to go
  24. One thing about the ratio of worthy men to worthy women is that most of the guys who left their wife also left the church; hence a lot more single women are active than men.
  25. Each person is a whole universe and each of one is a single and unique son/daughter of our heavenly parents.Said that, I would like to tell a short story that shows us a big problem between the YSA in the Church: " A returned men missionary, well educated, born in the church, fell in love with a 20 years old young lady (who have been baptized one year before); they were fine in their engagement. Finally, he decided to quit the relationship, the reason? she was not virgin (remember that she got baptized at her 19 years old...) He told me his story and I asked him: What have been teaching in your mission? and I always remember that story". If we don't live the real principles of the Gospel and if we don't honor the atonement of Christ, we can not achieve celestial goals in our life, including a Celestial Marriage. Easy to say, difficult to live but 100% necessary.
  26. I have been in the same boat when I became a widow and there were surprising moments that waited for me in the singles world. So instead of complaining--I wrote a book which can help singles of all ages and their priesthood leaders called "Of One Heart: Being Single in the LDS World" found on Amazon!! Pass the word and know this book has and can help many singles in the church. We are all of one heart and can live together as saints peaceably. As children of one God we can help each other.
  27. I noticed that a lot of women complain that too many of the men are social retards, weird, or awkward. News flash sisters, one's social abilities are NOT an accurate indicator of one's faithfulness or future willingness to be true to temple covenants. Bite the bullet and go out with the weird guy, get to know him, and mold him into the guy you think he can become. My step dad was the weirdest guy at singles events, but he has been faithful for 30 years. (Great article Erin Ann)
  28. While I can understand how a girl would know if a guy is spending time playing video games, how would she know if he is indulging in pornography? While I am sure that there are some guys who do indulge in porn, I find the statements to be somewhat over generalizing. Especially since our bishop, who is a family marriage counselor, says that females are addicted to porn as much as men
  29. To LIOTB, I totally agree with you on this.
  30. My sister has been divorced for many years. She has two adult daughters and her observation is marriageable men are like parking spaces at the grocery store. All the good ones are taken and the rest are handicaped. I'm married 45 years and have one daughter who would love to be married. She's in her mid thirties, has a degree(s) and her own home. She really wants to be a loving wife and mother. Her homemaking skills are great. Her dating experiences in the last few years have been nonexistant. I think she's given up. She's active in her ward (a mid singles) It breaks my heart.
  31. I find this article and survey sad and disturbing. I am an early 40's single who has never married, and I cannot say that any of the comments listed explain why I think I am not married. I do not believe that there are not any good righteous priesthood holding men out there. I do not believe that women only want a career or a perfect man. I see the number one issue is that we have all (men and women, single or married) forgotten what the Gospel really is. It is about becoming the best we can be through love, kindness, charity, and especially the Atonement. If we could all look and treat each other as the children of God that we are, then we would be more likely to be in the right place at the right time to either help a marriage happen or make a marriage happen. We must see each other as Sons and Daughters of God. Respect each other’s gifts, abilities, and differences. Let go of what the world says about what love, lust, or perfection is in a gender or situation. It is Satan's influence that causes us to judge and blame a gender, culture, or Church for the reasons people don't get married. God's eternal plan for each of us includes marriage and if we will all love and support and care for each other and ourselves in faith, knowing that God's plan is perfect, then Satan's influence can be mitigated and marriages will happen in the right time, with the right person, in an eternal way. It is each of our responsibilities to look at every "single" (despite our circumstances or our gender) and love them as God does and then marriages will happen.
  32. Hi Fred and Emmanuel and others who wonder..., Was this a world-wide survey? I know ONE of the places Erin ran it was on the LDS Midsingles of the WORLD Facebook page (she mentioned it in her article AND that is where I found out about it). It is a FB group that consists of over 4,000 Mid-single, LDS adults. The numbers for that particular site do seem to tend to skew on the "US" side, but there are definitely members from all over the world that do comment regularly. Erin, however, could not force anyone to take the whoever CHOSE to take it, man or woman - U.S. citizen or not, is who she was able to get. I know that was not the only place the survey was offered. As for "official" mid-singles programs, there are a good number of them these days, as Erin mentioned, and it is growing. Hopefully Bro. Campbell will hop on these comments...he's very versed in this information. But to offer a taste: There are 3 Mid-Singles wards/branches in the SLC area, and another 2 in Provo and Logan. There are 4 more Single adult wards throughout the state and quite a few Mid-single- specific programs. I am most familiar with these as I live in Utah, presently, and am 39 and single. But, there are mid-singles wards/branches/magnet wards and programs other places as well...some of the places you will find them are throughout CA, DC area, KS, NV, PA, AZ and WA. I know there are a few places out of the states that have them as well, such as Australia, but am not sure on details. There are also "Mid-singles" conferences popping up all the time as well. These ARE held all over the world. I know of one that just took place in Holland.
  33. What isn't discussed is the lack of proper priorities in the right order as President Kimball taught when I was a youth (and printed on the back of his picture) -- seminary (mission prep), mission, marriage, children and then finishing education. Add to that the teaching that mothers stay at home (see President Benson for a clear statement there). Young adults want to start with the standard of living their parents have -- a car each, dining out, new furniture, full closets, electronics, vacations... security... including not having children until they are paid for. We wouldn't trade those years of being starving college parents with a priority on being a family more than world trappings.
  34. I do appreciate the people who try to organize the msa activities and their difficult plight, but the whole problem is many sided for both men and woman. I know for a fact that the msa organization activities, until just recently, in Oregon have been an almost secret organization. I am old enough to know that the leaders here were against us even organizing as a group separate from the older singles. I myself only found out that anything was organized through friends of friends in random conversations. If they had not told me, I most likely never would have known till a few months ago I got a call from a person who was just assigned to my stake to call people around (and I am nearly 34!!). I have friends of mine who are older who have never been contacted except by myself. Nobody ever mentioned it in YSA, as I was getting older. Most people who were there either moved out or were kicked out, with no place to go but a family ward; a place where you're chances of meeting anyone near your age are slim to none. Yes, you can get callings and get involved, but many mid singles find it hard to relate to people who are in a different stage in life with little hope of meeting anyone there. Honestly most single guys I know dread going to such a place that just reminds them of how single they are especially when bishops will often ask why they are not married. Is there any wonder why a lot of members go inactive or start dating non members? While activity organizers do their best to plan our activities, it's hard to get a lot of numbers when the organization has gone so poorly advertised for so long. By the time a lot of the population is told about it in Oregon, they are either dating a non member, with a non member or dissolutioned with the church in general and their place in it. I have personally heard from brothers and sisters lamentations about how they feel the church has cast them off in a way. Add to this the general flakiness of people around my age and it makes things hard. Yes, we can blame the male members, and I am not saying they are blameless, but in the end, people are human. The solution would probably be magnet wards or branches with the neighboring vancouver and pdx metropolitan areas, and actually letting people know they exist and running activities from there. Yes, activities can be planned, but if people are forced to go to family wards with no hope of meeting anyone there and not a central meeting place where people of same age can meet every week with a larger crowd, I don't believe the turnout will improve. The lack of attendance is one reason people don't show up. And if you have several small groups splintered here and there, the numbers in each group will continue to be small. We have been told we will receive no more further support until we get the numbers up attending activities. When in reality lack of a place for people to go (magnet ward) and poor advertisement of an msa program (and even resistance to their being a program in the first place) are one of , if not the main reasons we have poor numbers in the first place in Oregon. I am guessing we are not alone. If a magnet ward were established, you might not get numbers at first, but I am pretty sure you would gain them over time as people would realize there is a central place to go. You may have lost a lot of people by now, but some will come back and you can always try to do better with the next generation of YSA grads. If you stop the problem now, you can save a lot of people. And please make them easy to get into and not just for "perfect" people or people you feel deserve to be in them. You are going to run into a lot of people who have been away for various periods of time. Some may be struggling with some things, but I think everyone deserves a chance and a place to go where they feel like they have hope no matter what struggles they have had in their lives and what they are dealing with.
  35. I would like to add that, as a 39 yr. old, never-been-married LDS female, I sure appreciate those, who are married, who took the time to read Erin's article in attempt to gain greater understanding. I have CHOSEN to attend family wards since I was 33, even though I had the option to still attend a singles ward. After almost seven years, however, I am desperately seeking some "single" friendship again for a myriad of reasons. One of them being that the family ward/stake I attended for the past 4 3/4 years made next to NILL attempts to address the needs of the "mid-singles" of the church. I have tried my best to contribute/serve in the place I was at and the circumstances I was in. I tried to also raise my voice to help make more aware. I know ALL (married & non-married) are bombarded with so many trials right now. I know often the "leaders" are just trying their best to do what they can. If only they would be more willing to acknowledge our population and give us greater reign to help creating programs that will help us to strengthen and to RECLAIM. Often, being single and NBM, we don't have family to lean on for many different reasons. A home teacher or visiting teacher that checks in once a month is nice, but not a great support. Most times, we don't have someone that even knows if we're dead or not at the end of each day. There is loneliness in many different forms. Ours is a certain brand that could be helped with greater acknowledgement and with people willing to support us in our efforts to create greater support systems. Most of us do want to get married, are making efforts to do so, and recognize that that would be the "ideal" support system...but until we get there, and to help us get there...please validate and support our circumstances and needs.
  36. Erin, I appreciate your articles about the singles in the church. As a RS president, I always learn something and am reminded to try harder. I struggle to help the single women. I feel like there are things that they could do to help themselves be more involved, but I know that we need to always be thinking how the activities that we have will benefit and appeal to them. I was single for several years and at least partially understand their struggles. Thanks for what you do.
  37. I agree that this article is a bit one sided, but there are real concerns presented here. I'm a 36 year old woman in Salt Lake. I've been single for 5 years. I stayed away from the "singles scene" for the first 3 years, was introduced to it, and after 2 years of on and off attending "dances" and "parties".. I've taken my leave. I have to agree that the reason I have not dated any man in that "scene" is because they are immature. I have 3 kids, a house, a car, a few jobs, and hobbies. I've actually been told by some of these "men" that my life intimidates them, they feel like they can't compete.. Can't compete? This is normal adult life. Step up. The men that usually attend these LDS gigs are there seeking attention, not companionship. Now, this definitely goes both ways. I'm totally put off by the actions and behavior of many of the "women" I meet as well. I was completely disheartened that after years of struggling through adult trials, I go to these activities and see mid-singles acting like teenagers. I know there are mature LDS singles out there that are just living their lives the best they know how. My heart and prayers go out to you and perhaps we will meet at some normal adult activity, but certainly not at one of these church functions. It's unfortunate. Because you're not there for the same reason I'm not.
  38. What's with all the critical downer remarks against men from single, 'I think I am Gods choice for men', LDS women! I have a brother that has dated some of THE MOST ill bred, whiney, superficial, ungrateful Mormon women. He served a worthy mission, is really good looking, two Masters degrees and has spent a fortune the last four years flying to Utah to meet these so called WORTHY LDS women. Our family has noticed that non Utah women appear to be much more gracious and not as rude. My parents are ready for him to marry a well bred, religious, good non member. I don't blame him or his friends not wanting to date Utah LDS women anymore. Grow up single ladies...your not 'all that' or you would have been translated by now.
  39. P.S. (yes, one more thing) LIOTB - WOW!! I must speak up because your response saddens me so. I, too, have seen women be just as lustful and selfish and addicted and judgmental as the men. But, not ALL are that way. Our society tends to be easily distracted with worldly concepts and church members fall into that trap as well. I took the survey, my response to the "why are we not married yet?" question was that we tend to too easily get caught up in materialism (worldly ideas of what beauty and happiness are) and that most do not understand what love truly means. The "no worthy men" statement, I do believe, IS too easily thrown out there. Really, I think it is just finding the RIGHT match. It's soo easy for people to throw out the cliche, "Just find an active, temple-worthy person to marry" and the other cliche "Any two active, temple-worthy people can make a marriage work". Well sure they can! And, if that's what the Lord required of me, that's what I'd do. But it is not. I HAVE had specific counsel from the Lord as to how to figure out whom to marry and WHO to marry. There have been several in my life who have seemed to fit this bill, but, for one reason or another, have not worked out. Do you not think this pains me to no end when I allow myself to dwell??! That allowance, however, is rare and I mostly just keep giving it another try. Whatever that "try" entails at that particular time in life. Who is someone else to throw that cliche out at us and tell us we should deny our personal relationship and communication with the Lord?! In a general response to those cliches, I like to put it like this: Am I being picky? Well, the older I get, the more I learn about relationships and about myself. Would it not be irresponsible to not pay heed to the information the Lord has brought into my life? LIOTB, I find your response just as judgmental and harsh as those you are accusing. With the general information that you shared about yourself, you DO sound like a good man...maybe, it's just that you haven't found YOUR match yet (not that there is only one - maybe the timing is just not right yet, or maybe you are being an instrument in the hand of the Lord for certain purposes...who knows!), but please don't give up. We ALL need you. :o}
  40. Even though your survey seems a bit biased, I don't disagree with many of the results. Often the ratio between women and men at activities is 3:1. I am one of those men and while I'm not looking for a model, I do want someone that shares many of the things that I enjoy, such as sports and being active. I am divorced and my ex didn't like sports unless we could afford to actually be at the game. As far as being active, I wasn't aware of the interest disparity between us until after we were married. It seems like many single moms and single women don't care about sports and don't care much about their bodies either. Is it too much to ask to be able to throw a frisbee around or ride a bike for 30 minutes? In general, many singles, both men and women, don't try to improve themselves physically or try other things to changes their lives and maybe even their attractiveness. They figure that it doesn't matter that they are 40+ lbs overweight, wear unflattering clothes, and watch hours of TV every night because they, as in men, will have to accept me for who I am. Yes, beauty is only skin deep, and that changes over time. I understand that, but with so many +30-year old women projecting the message that they just don't care how they look, who is going to stand out. I've seen some attractive 40- and 50-year old women. As far as your estimate on the mid-singles program, I'd like to hear who is giving the authority to organize such groups. Around here, the area authorities have adamantly come out against mid-singles as being a recognized subset of the single adult program. They exist in online social media, but you won't find mid-singles representative as a church calling. I think this program you are referring to only exists in Utah, due to the high concentration of church members. I am curious to see your evidence to back up your claim.
  41. When I joined the church in high school, I was a shy, nerdy guy who had no clue how to socialize with girls. One girl took an interest in me and her efforts helped me learn how to be comfortable with girls. I eventually went on a mission, returned home to date lots of girls in college and marry before graduating. My three single sons (2 SA and one now mid-single) remind me of me when I joined the church. They have kind hearts and strong testimonies but have no real clue how to relate to girls. I wish some kind single woman would look past their current reality to their potential and take them on as a project. I have seen this work for many single women over the years who took a dorky guy and helped transform him into a strong husband, father and priesthood holder.
  42. This has always been a problem for the faithful. It's a part of why we practiced polygamy in the early church. If these women really want a faithful man they have five options, 1) Go out and make one, 2) lower your expectations, 3) raise your own value to be worthy of your expectations (though this may be more a problem for men), or 4) try to bring back polygamy (legally), or get a cat. Until you take one of those steps you're not doing your part to get what you want. You're just saying, "Gimme!" without putting in the work. Perhaps women just want to express their frustrations, but aren't looking for someone to solve the problem.
  43. This article is choice. My take on this is two-fold. First of all, the sisters are the ones who are much too picky, much too demanding, much too critical. There was hardly a male voice criticizing women for the man's singlehood, but the women were quick to dribble out "lack of worthy priesthood holders!" Really? The brethren are unworthy because they don't find you, embittered criticism-mongers, attractive? Hello! Second of all, the Church has long indulged in Priesthood bashing. We men are told we're evil because physiologically we have to masturbate; we're evil because we have sexual urges; we're evil because of everything. Then we're all told the lie that the sisters are virtuous, heavenly, pure, i.e. sans any sexuality. We brethren are bashed, and bashed until we at long conclude we're better off outside the Church. Then the Church wonders where we all went? Ask Elder Ballard, Elder Packer, Elder Kimball, Elder Petersen, and every other General Authority who got high off of bashing the boys. If you bash the boys, they'll still grow up to be model men, just not in your ranks. You praised the sisters and cut them slack, looking past their weaknesses (which are largely the same as those of the brethren) and extolling their virtues and strengths. And guess what? The sisters stayed. I guess kindness works more than hateful bashing.
  44. At 55, I haven't had a single friend get married in 25 years! No one get married these days. The single (NBM) men don't want to get married. The women do, but most of us aren't beautiful enough. The Church really need to start talking with the over 30 singles.
  45. I'm wondering what the men's responses were. It's overwhelmingly women complaining about a lack of men, what were the top 10 men's reasons? I don't know any guys I've ever talked to who've said they're not married because they watch pornography, or would rather play video games.
  46. I have tried to find a nice LDS sister to marry for over 7 years without any luck. First the LDS women in Utah don't want anything to do with you if you don't live there. I am considered a nice looking guy and debt free. I haven't been married in the Temple which is very important to me. So I would say that the Sisters in the church do not want to get married. I don't watch porn, play video games go to church every Sunday and to the Temple as much as possible. The LDS women I have taken out think I am a gentleman and had a good time. But they were not worthy even though they said they were to attend the Temple. They were very into wanting sex which I think is great but not until you are married in the Temple. So I am a prude. The Sisters I have dated are not living the principles of the church with is very important to me. I take my covenants very serious, I would be willing to move for the right women, and would treat them like the Princess that God has meant them to be treated. So is it a problem with the Sister or the Brothern? I have been to the LDS dating sites and can not believe the way that the sisters act. I have been around the world and have done a lot of things I am not proud of but have changed my ways. I thank my Father in Heaven many times a day for getting me turned around. So these are my two cents worth. Where I live there are no single women around my age group, it is a LDS community and they tend to stay married. So where are you worthy LDS Sisters??????
  47. Wow, the comments I see from the women here reinforce my decision to NOT date American women, and NOT restrict my dating to LDS women. One woman repeats the old sexist "joke" that men are like parking spaces. Maybe so, but the problem is that women will keep driving around hoping for the perfect space to come open, rather than finding a good one that means walking a little. They have forgotten what they were there for in the first place. One claims that "most of the men who left their wives left the Church," but most divorced men were left BY their wives, and simply can't bear to sit in Sacrament alone -- or, worse, sitting behind his wife and the guy she left him for. When you look at the American "divorce culture," it's no wonder that an increasing number of middle-aged, divorced men are looking for Filipinas and other Asian women. We want someone who was raised to believe that divorce is a last resort, and who will work to hold a marriage together rather than simply look for the next guy. I lived in Salt Lake City twice. The first time, I saw middle single women rejecting men for frivolous reasons. When I came back after 5 years away, I saw most of those same women still going to the singles dances, not so picky anymore but they had polluted the well -- the guys they had hurt earlier simply didn't trust them, so a lot of good men and a lot of good women are still going to those dances, watching for new faces. Too many women are looking for the guy with his own house, fancy car, great job, who vacations 6 weeks each year in Hawai'i and whose life is complete except for a wife to help him spend his money . . .and they're throwing away the good man who needs his HELPMEET to be the reason he would get all of these things. Hate to break it to you, sisters, but there are very few General Authorities at singles dances or "speed dating" mingles!
  48. I agree that the results seem quite accurate and applaud Erin for putting this out to heighten people's awareness. Having spent a couple of years being our Stake Female Single's rep after decades of refusing to participate in the Singles program I can relate to the feelings and sentiments expressed by so many. A very positive action being taken in our stake is to focus on building relationships and nurturing Singles in the church on a very intense ward level. Each ward is calling a mature couple to serve as a "Mentoring Couple". This is like a service mission. They find the singles in their ward (we have almost 1000 in our Stake with less than 200 active) and strive to love them into activity and provide safe and friendly gatherings for them to participate in. Critical to this is their involvement in the ward council to advocate for Singles. The couple must take initiative to develop this program for their ward and so it looks different in every unit. I believe a critical aspect of this is to have a Priesthood holder involved who can put his arm around the Single men and be their friend and helper. Our goal is to invite all Singles to "Come Unto Christ". Dating and Marriage are not the focus. Our success has been small so far but I believe this program has great potential to reach out and LOVE the Singles in our Stake.
  49. The elephant in the room is undiagnosed and untreated mental illness and personality disorders and the resultant plethora of problems. Convenient to gloss over yet I think is the number one problem facing the Church and especially in high concentration in the singles world. Why is such great effort - shallow - effort exerted to have dances to try and pair people up. We turn the lights down, the music up and make it all but impossible to talk and see if there are red flags. People gyrate and get interested in each other and we see additional broken marriages.. this is cyclic. Why not have activities based upon common interest and stage of life.. ie still raising children. Its a smoke screen thinking LDS social events are worthwhile... they mostly attract the most broken and the mentally ill. The healthy ones learn to not participate- and those in charge wonder why.
  50. Tom--they are in Sweden. :)
  51. Girls are not taught homemaking skills any more. They are not taught to value being a wife and mother because that might offend someone. And men are not taught to value a woman who wants to be a wife and mother. It's not the church lesson material that is lacking, it's that people are hesitant because of political correctness. But as I look around, the girls who are married are the ones who know how to cook and make a happy, orderly home. The boys who marry them value what their mothers do (or wish their mothers did). Do a survey about homemaking skills, try to get through the PC problems and see what comes up.
  52. The results are interesting however the Church has no programs for intermediate aged singles. They just throw singles away. Another point is meeting people that you can talk to let alone date.
  53. A lot of the womens' responses to this survey are hyper-critical of men. It is no wonder the men leave the church. People can only stand so much abuse before they get fed up and leave. They are constantly made to feel that they aren't good enough and aren't living up to the expectations to be a righteous priesthood holder for these perfect and pure daughters of god. And yet the women like sex just as much as the men. They are all into Twilight and lusting after Taylor Lautner's muscles. The only difference is they don't see his privates. Yes porn isn't the greatest thing in the world but it doesn't have to be the end of the world either. Men are going to look at other women just like you women look at other men. It doesn't have to be a reason to never get married. Yeah it sucks that I'm not as good looking as Taylor Lautner but that's life. I would still rather date a girl who is really into Twilight than one who is really into Disney movies. The infantilization of some men and women in Mormon culture is another problem that a few of the survey responses did hit on. It seems they are so scared of being to "worldly" that they just live in some sort of perpetual childhood.
  54. As a convert, it was hard to get a date with the so-called good LDS girls because I was not a "returned missionary". On the other hand were the other LDS girls who were too eager to get their hands all over me. It took 8 years to find another convert who didn't care whether I went on a mission and was willing to wait to get in the sack. I love the church, but Mormon culture is dysfunctional. We are raising our 2 children to beware of the hypocrisy in the church.
  55. I struggle with this.. I have a friend of mine and know that he wants to hear from the church leadership that he is not lost that he is just as much a prince as women are princesses. He has tried to date but gets turned down because he is not a RM. So he struggles with staying active as there is no one to relate to and as a guy there is so much pressure to get married--find the spouse and if not you won't progress after this life. It really is a tremendous amount of pressure to have and with the lack of choices how do you find someone who is not blind to your potential. The same goes for me I dated a guy and on the second date we went to the temple and from there things got really strange as if I needed to marry him then so I struggle to go on dates to the temple especially right at the beginning of a relationship. Do you not think though that both sexes really struggle with communication and expectations--if you go to an activity and try to be available it's a trying especially when people give you there life story the first time you meet--some of them are very depressing. So all and all we stop looking.
  56. Tom, you asked where the good LDS sisters are? Try looking past the Wasatch Front! While I am not single, my grown daughter is. We live in Michigan, and there are several worthy, loving and faithful women who have a really hard time finding similar LDS men. Around here, marriage-seeking single LDS men are an urban myth. We also have awesomely loving and accepting wards, well suited to Saints who are tired of the intrigues and game-playing found in Happy Valley. And we have better football!
  57. Some good information but very discouraging. Too many female responses (based on the repetitive "no worthy Priesthood holders"). The greatest problem for men is the tremendous competition for the women who have maintained an attractive persona! Without basic attraction few men will consider what is available, which is overweight with more baggage then most men can carry! Then too grandchildren often get in the way! Solution? Improve appeal, and take a prayerful risk!
  58. Very interesting article. Thank you for giving those who have never been in this situation a chance to see the challenges that face "mid-singles" in the church. Marriage finally happened for me because of an unofficial "mid-singles" program that some of my friends started. It was a huge success--most of the people I knew in that group have met someone and married and are moving into that next stage of their lives. I have great empathy for those that are past the normal marrying age of LDS culture and trying to fit in. Every group has a built-in support structure in the church - primary, youth, YSAs--but if you're not ready to marry at the right time, your comfortable support structure disappears. It's a real jolt to find yourself suddenly attending singles activities with people who could literally be your grandparents. Even worse when the only women your age are scared off by all the old men following them around each activity. This is a vital need that the church is only beginning to address. My sincere thanks to you for writing this article and raising the issue so others can be aware. I'm so grateful for my marriage and the friends that took it upon themselves to plan the activities that let me meet my wife. I'm very happy! Besides, otherwise I might still be at an SA dance standing next to somebody's grandpa, wondering what in the world I was doing there. These are real people with real feelings. Give them a break, try to be a friend and help them feel welcome in your family ward. Just that little bit of friendliness might mean more than you ever know.
  59. Very interesting article. Thank you for giving those who have never been in this situation a chance to see the challenges that face "mid-singles" in the church. Marriage finally happened for me because of an unofficial "mid-singles" program that some of my friends started. It was a huge success--most of the people I knew in that group have met someone and married and are moving into that next stage of their lives. I have great empathy for those that are past the normal marrying age of LDS culture and trying to fit in. Every group has a built-in support structure in the church - primary, youth, YSAs--but if you're not ready to marry at the right time, your comfortable support structure disappears. It's a real jolt to find yourself suddenly attending singles activities with people who could literally be your grandparents. Even worse when the only women your age are scared off by all the old men following them around each activity. This is a vital need that the church is only beginning to address. My sincere thanks to you for writing this article and raising the issue so others can be aware. I'm so grateful for my marriage and the friends that took it upon themselves to plan the activities that let me meet my wife. I'm very happy! Besides, otherwise I might still be at an SA dance standing next to somebody's grandpa, wondering what in the world I was doing there. These are real people with real feelings. Give them a break, try to be a friend and help them feel welcome in your family ward. Just that little bit of friendliness might mean more than you ever know.
  60. I applaud the focus on ensuring that men have opportunities to get involved and feel connected. That's an important emphasis. At the same time, it is a mistake to assume that all of the men who stop attending church want to come back, or that they will come back if properly fellowshipped. Large numbers of well-educated, financially-stable, morally-worthy, lifelong members of the church have been leaving the church in the past decade -- substantially more than the normal amount -- due largely to better access of information about church history and doctrine via the Internet. Elder Marlin Jensen noted this is the largest scale apostasy the church has experienced since the Kirtland era. Both men and women are leaving because they simply started to believe differently than the church teaches. But men lead the way in terms if those leaving for these reasons. Recent surveys of this group show that these are people who originally had no desire to leave the church -- and who still live lives of integrity -- but who now have no desire to come back. Their world view has changed. Men are more likely to fit this scenario than women, who tend to find such a life-altering decision more threatening, and who tend to lean more on paradigms of authority and conformance than the men do. I don't pretend that all men who leave the church fit the above description either, but the number is significant enough that it bears mentioning.
  61. I think there is an undue amount of blame placed on the male members of the single contigent of the church. As a single male who is nearly 30, I find that the biggest issue is finding women I am attracted to. I have found in my singles wards that more woman than not do not take care of their bodies sufficiently. I know you're all thinking that's shallow but you can't force attraction. I value personality and spirituality more than looks but I have met too many women who resent girls who do stay in shape and ignore the fact that maybe they could keep the outside of their temple in better condition. In many cases these women amp up the overtness of their spirituality but don't amp up their efforts to be physically attractive. The end result is that they blame men for not being attracted to them. That being said, I do feel that men also need to be more proactive in pursuing the women they are interested in.
  62. There are times when I would like to point the finger of blame at guys and say they are too shallow but I know that's not why I'm not married. There are plenty of women who like me are overweight and still manage to get married. Obviously I'm not attracting any men, obviously I haven't met one yet who would love me despite my physical flaws. I guess that's not entirely true either. Since a guy actually wanted to date me last year, but I just wasn't attracted to him. I always seem to sabotage my chances. I instantly become wary of any man that shows interest because of past experience. Only once in my life have I ever experienced mutual attraction and it fizzled really fast. I don't know how to love or be loved. I'm afraid of rejection. But I still want to be loved and I want to become a mother before its too late. So it's very frustrating to me that I have so few opportunities
  63. Additionally, after reading many of the responses to this article I would like to add that the church is not here to find you a mate or entertain you. The church does not need to create more "programs" for mid-singles. If you are wanting to meet more people of the opposite sex then take initiative do so. Initiative doesn't mean calling for the church to make more programs designed for you to meet people. Focus on living the gospel standards and improving your attractiveness in all facets. Don't blame others for your being single. If you don't live temple standards then don't expect to attract someone who does. If you don't have a flat stomach then don't expect to attract someone who does. People attract those who live a similar lifestyle. I am appalled by those of you calling for girls to take on the nerdy, awkward guy as a project and vice versa. He/she needs to work on their social skills if that is an obstacle for them. If you're single, as I am, you probably need to expand your finding pools, strengthen your spirituality, develop social skills, go on a diet, or any combination of the aforementioned items.
  64. Wish the survey included Africa and entire Lds globally. you come to Africa and results will be shocking...
  65. KJ - I agree with you. Well said. And I agree with whoever said too many men who are a 5 are expecting women to be a 10. The flip side of that is women who want a rich Apostle. Getting married too young is a bad idea, but the good thing about that is when you're so young, you are so optimistic and blind to flaws or potential problems - basically "dumb" enough to leap! And then you just work together on the problems that you encounter! You grow up together. It's tough; it's messy. It may seem out of control to today's more thoughtful, methodical singles, but we got the job done...... With so much pressure to make a good decision, we all scrutinize each other to the point of squelching romance!! We over-think it!!!!
  66. This article is great! as a mother of two LDS Single Adults, it hits the nail on the head. My daughter is approaching 30 and she finds many young men acting juvenile and playing around with life with games--XBox and others-- and looking for MS. Perfect over and over and my son, who is 31, feels rejected by all the LDS Princesses who were spoiled by their parents and doted on looking for Mr. Returned Missionary. My son did not fill a mission and has had some life changing events and feels like he is not 'good enough' for those girls at all. There has to be some middle ground otherwise we are facing a huge generation of young adults who cannot get together because of outrageous expectations taught them by their parents and leaders (some, unwittingly). Please someone do something to make these kids learn how to cultivate relationships with the opposite sex and teach that all people are not perfect--not all men go on missions!
  67. Carola comes very close to identifying the problem, which is that children are not taught MARRIAGE skills anymore. My grandparents (non-LDS) were married for life, even when they had difficulties. Western kids today are taught that marriage is where you store up assets to demand in the divorce, because that's what they have seen as their parents and grandparents have split up. They are not warned that sometimes it's hard to stay in love with your spouse, but that it is worth the work. They think that temporary unhappiness or boredom is going to go on forever, so they want to change the channel. They find someone new, who will make them feel good and "validate" them, then when they're bored they start looking for someone else. Dishonesty and selfishness in marriage has become so rampant that many people are avoiding it, or are looking for the perfect partner without trying to BE the perfect partner. They aren't honest about themselves, because they're not honest WITH themselves. The easiest example is the "body type" that people claim on singles sites. You do NOT have an "athletic build" just because you're shaped like a FOOTBALL. If you can't even be honest with something so obvious, how can anyone trust you with more important things? You can't claim to be "healthy and active" if your BMI is OMG!
  68. As a single sister (divorced) my observations are as follows: 1. Men have too many women to choose from; so rather than pick just one, they prefer to be surrounded by their little harem of followers. 2. unrealistic lists of requirements. I have read descriptions that read like a shopping list, such as must have red hair, must have long hair, must look great in high heeled shoes, etc. Women who get to my age don't want to wear heels, in fact heels are just not comfortable at all, and the older, maturer woman will go for comfort over looks, every time. 3. Older, or divorced men want a wife that they can do activities with that should be just for the boys. Not many women are into hunting/ camping/ fishing or standing in the freezing cold/ rain at a football match every weekend. Some things are best shared with the guys, while the wife spends time doing what she enjoys - how would a guy feel if she insisted he went to a quilting session/ baby shower/ beauty parlour with her?. By all means, of course there should be stuff they can both enjoy doing together, but not everything! And isn't it nice to know that, at the end of an exciting outing with friends, you can look forward to going home to a warm comforting, welcoming home, because your husband/ wife is there? The old song 'You'd be so nice to come home to' still rings true.
  69. Much of it is a result of society's war on men. Ever since militant feminism started spreading its poison through our society, there's been this attitude that men are never good enough, but that women should have everything handed to them on a silver platter. There are far too many "DIsney princesses" in the Church, who walk around with an attitude of entitlement and think they don't have to put any work into a relationship. No wonder so many men are passing them up, or just "going Galt".
  70. I'm only semi-active at this point (I suppose you could say I have "testimony issues"), but looking at these responses is a nice reminder why I've given up trying to date within the Church. I'm a man who's been divorced for about a year and a half and have full time custody of my daughter. I also work full time and just received an Employee of the Year Award, but if this forum is to be believed, I'm just a layabout who too addicted to video games and porn to do anything with my life. I've been casually dating a few non-member women since I've been single, and while it comes with the frustrations that accompany all dating, it's been nice: they tend to be more open-minded, more mature, have more life experience, and they usually have more realistic expectations. On the other, most of the LDS single women I've encountered seem more interested in gossip, young adult novels (reading Twilight and The Hunger Games in your thirties?), and watching reality shows than in having an adult conversation. Another huge problem that the Church has is in how it infantilizes its single adults. I'm 39 years old and was married for nearly ten years; I don't want to go on a scavenger hunt or sit in some stranger's living room watching a "family friendly" movie (And never mind that rule that says that single adults must be chaperoned by a married couple. What an insult.) The Church is obviously having a problem retaining its single members and they have two choices: either continue to blame "the adversary" or to take an honest look at how actual people live their lives and try to take that into account. Frankly, I don't see that happening anytime soon, so I guess the Church will continue to bring up adults who think and act like children. I'm not Hugh Jackman, but you know what? You probably aren't Scarlett Johansson. It's time that more people try to live life as it actually is instead to chasing fantasies that will never exist for real.
  71. Great comments. Some of my own: 1. I have been married for over a decade (and married in my 30s), but similar issues seem to continue: Ongoing pressure from church leaders that unmarried men are somewhat "damaged" if not married by 25. Some of these young men simply become discouraged and less active, or look elsewhere. How many times do single men have to hear, "Be men..." in church talks about marriage and dating in church meetings? Some men have stopped going to general and stake priesthood meetings for this reason (among other reasons). 2. Many young women continue to become quite vocal in their apparent criticism of men as though their potential male dates would find this fashionable or would not notice--although I have been married for quite some time, I see this continue even today. Why pursue a relationship with someone who says things to their date such as "You are such a...MAN. Grow up!" Why marry someone who, in their statements at least, do not appear to respect or even like men? 3. I have known plenty of young men, very mariagable, who date a woman, but after a while it becomes clear that the woman they are dating does not want to marry someone who will take them too far from mom, dad, or their families. 5. Finally, irrespective of gender--male or female--there just seems to be a muted disdain for single people. Either one belongs to the "land of old/lost toys" because they are older than 25 (male or female), or they are not perfect enough for marriage. This is just sad.
  72. My 2nd wife signed a prenup before we got sealed in the temple. Everybody thinks that is crazy, but once you've been robbed blind by a 1st celestial companion that runs off with her new facebook boyfriend (including $2500/month alimony!) reality becomes more powerful than Sunday school lessons on the virtues of single Mormon women. My honest conclusion is that only 1 in 7 LDS women has a shred of honesty in her so mitigate the risk as much as possible brothers. Get prenups before marriage and DNA tests when they give birth.
  73. I often hear the same complaints voiced by singles in my area. If all the "mormon guys" are additcted to porn then a young woman should find a non-mormon guy and date him. Date guys in your educational/income bracket - not just Mormon guys. If you sit around waiting for a guy to cure his addiction, go to college and find a good job, it's just not going to happen. You have agency - use it.
  74. First: It is imperative for Women to realize that the Sperm Count in Men is lowering by drastic numbers. This is causing men to be less masculine and more “Sissified” and “girlie.” This means with a lower Sperm Count, Men are now more passive, and have less of a “drive” for girls and thus Marriage. This is being caused by GMO changes to food, additives in the vaccines, and fluoride in the drinking water, and Chemtrials. The result will be. …it will need for Women to be more aggressive in dating and proposing; sorry; that is our reality now. Another aspect is that Women need to realize that for Men, (and I know you will not like this but this is how it is), the First Rule of Romance, is “Attraction”; this is in the “genes” of the man. Some men like heavy weighted girls, but most Men have a genetic preference for thin Women. Don’t blame me; blame the genetic preference realities. So before a man sees your great personality and spirituality, he will look through his genetic eyes of “attraction”; sometimes if the attraction is not there he can’t get to the personality and spirituality levels. You really want a man; drop the pounds. Again; sorry; this is how it is for most. Men are like dogs; they can be trained; taking on the nerdy, femish, awkward guy as a project for life will be a challenge, but we men can be trained. Remember behind every successful Man is a pushy wife. More times than not, it will be worth it. If you really want kids, then you have to make some compromises (though he will be perfected in the Hereafter; take heart; it is worth it). I have also seen that married Men treat their wives much sweeter when their wife “works” on her figure; again it is in the genes. Again; don’t blame me; I don’t make these genetic rules. The reality is the guy will not comprehend how to work on his Social Skills; just put your arm on his shoulder and speak gently to him directly about how you want him to change; men will change to get a girl; if they are trained right. Indeed, the “elephant in the room” is the large amount of men who have various personality disorders and just weirdness. However, most Men can be trained. So learn to play Xbox. Actually nerds and “slow” guys can grow with a patient Wife. I am still slow and nerdy, but after 26 years of marriage and one son, my wife and I have grown together. Remember FHE every Monday night, Family and Personal Prayers, and Scripture Study, Indexing, Fasting (each Week). God answers prayers when you do all you can. So remember Daily Scripture Study (go to the gym), Family History (Eat a light dinner), Fasting (go for a long walk), go to Church (no food after 7 PM), go to The Temple (eat smaller size meals), Service Projects (dance with arm weights for thirty minutes a day). If will be tough to lose weight because they changed the wheat; it is not like in the D&C. They changed an enzyme so now you can eat and you are still hungry. Mark 9:29 Your Father in Heaven and Jesus and The Holy Ghost Love you; you are perfect in their sight. However, if you want a man and kids you have to play by the genetic rules of attraction.
  75. The survey dances around the question of birth control and children. "Dating for fun" is actually recreational sex. Marriage is really all about having and raising children and women that show little interest in having more than one child are not really interested in family more than the token one child like communist china without the state pressure.
  76. For many years I thought divorce in the Church was about the worst thing that could happen to someone. With some age I think it is much worse to never take that chance. We need people to be willing to try and fail, and accept them if they do fail. And help them try again.
  77. Elder Carl B. Cook: "Working to qualify for blessings may involve physical labour as well as mental, spiritual, or emotional effort. Individuals seeking an eternal companion often find it challenging to find a person they want to marry. It requires faith to attend activities, go on blind dates and pursue relationships that at the outset may not appear to hold much promise. But it is often through exercising faith and doing this “work” that goals and aspirations are realized. The Lord expects us to do our part. His blessings are given in His own time, but we can do much to facilitate those blessings. We can stay actively involved while waiting patiently for desired conditions or events to unfold in our lives."
  78. Mid-Singles have special needs because often there are children involved that would like to go to their home ward instead of a mid-singles ward. On the other hand it might be good to make friends with children in the same situation. I agree that the church should develop better programs for singles which comprise 50% of the church membership and maybe there would be more happy families.
  79. I wanted to comment more on the comments than the article. Firstly, I've seen many a comment about how the counsel given by many a Prophet, about not delaying marriage until your education is complete, career, etc is WRONG for today's time. So you are outright saying that a Prophet of God is wrong. You are saying that YOU know better than GOD. And you then you wonder why things aren't going well... I was married at the age of 20,(my wife 4 months my senior), having been a convert to the church for only 18 months, and only having completed 50% of my University schooling. We decided, prayerfully, to not delay having children, and conceived our first child in our first year of marriage. Many friends (some in our Ward) questioned the wisdom of marrying so young, and then having children so early, without the foundations of education, career, finances. Guess what? We listened to the Lord, not to our friends and neighbours. My wife and I are celebrating our 17th anniversary this summer, and people around us constantly comment on how strong our union is, how bonded she and I are, and how in love we seem to be. The reason for that is my wife and I grew together. We suffered together. We worked together. We cried, sweated, and bled together. And, we repented together. We improved together. We have been (and still are) being refined together. Neither of us was perfect to start. Neither of us expected the other to be so. And that is why our marriage has been successful: not because of how easy things were because we waited for the right time, but because of how difficult things were, the trials and hardships we endured...that is what unified us. Our marriage is successful because we WORKED at it. We also improved ourselves! I also wanted to quote a comment above (from KJ I think it was): ". Besides, it is much more rewarding to be with your spouse while life's goals are being accomplished than to have a lifetime of goals already met before marriage. Expect great things from marriage, but not as a prerequisite for marriage. If you are 30+ and looking for a husband who is physically fit, ready to become a Bishop or Stake President, and has a prosperous career, you will likely find yourself looking at the husbands of other women who were willing to commit to their husband despite a lack of accomplishments, and then invested herself in achieving greatness in her marriage together with her husband. " ^ that is truth right there, like it or lump it.
  80. @dan: Blind dates should be outlawed. How many people have lost hours out of their lives because some otherwise well-meaning control freak couldn't stand the idea of their little match game not working out and had to rig the game? If you know two people who *MIGHT* hit it off, just introduce the two and let nature take its course. If nothing happens, what's it to you? (None of this is directed at dan, just the quote he posted.)
  81. Ok, here's a data point, for what it's worth. Profile of Wasatch Front single LDS woman, 30 years old, not verbatim, but pretty close: "If you are over 40, don't write me. I don't want to date an old man." Really!!
  82. Yes; it is very hard for a single man to come to church. After my wife and family left I felt like the bigest looser on the planet...few talks are given that don't remind me I have failed in this life. My wife gets to set with our kids and I get to set alone. Its hell. I've dated several dozen women but have never gotten a second date because I am not perfect. Non-mormons think I'm wonderful, but I don't want to travel that road. Bottom line; when I get horney enough I get the courage to date...when I am rejected by all of them I hide away until the pain goes away and the sex drive surfaces to the top. I do not touch women. I actually tried to kiss one girls hand and she kissed my nose thinking I was trying to kiss her...yes, I'm a dork. I had no problems dating as a youth...but now at 50 I can't figure women out.
  83. My son is a young adult and not active. BUT, let me tell you.....he is a very good young man and if a young lds woman would look past his inactivity they'd get a loyal, loving, attractive, one-woman kind of man. Because he is honest, he won't date lds young women in case he'd be taking them from their dream of a temple marriage. Still, he's a great catch. Also, my 27 year old cousin was rejected time and again by the lds girls in Florida, then at byu single adult activites. He's a very hard worker, knows how to make money, and a bit awkward. BUT a very beautiful girl from Mexico saw his goodness and they are married. He got the better end of the deal: a gorgeous wife that loves him for HIM, and doesn't expect him to be MR. PERFECT.
  84. It is not the church's responsibility to provide us with a spouse. It is not the responsibility of ward or stake leaders to be matchmakers. If people become inactive, it is NOT because they were not involved enough. It's because they did not have a testimony in the first place. It's time to take responsibility for ourselves---to seek first to be a true follower of Jesus Christ and then to reach out to one another in a spirit of love. There is a lot of bitterness in these comments and that will drive away a potential spouse faster than anything else.
  85. Being a 33 Year old Male who is about to get married for the first time (next week) to a 31 Year old Female who has also never been married before, I have a lot of strong opinions about this poll. I think the poll lacks a critical factor in distinguishing between those in large Mormon communities and small ones. Trying to organize my thoughts: 1) It is VERY hard to stay involved after 30. I got kicked out of my singles ward. Attended a Married ward that was very young. We are talking 2 primaries and 4 Nurseries. It took almost 4 months after getting my records transferred to be noticed by the bishopric, and that is going every single week. Other than Home teaching I had no calling for over a year. After I had gotten to know the bishop I asked him if there were any other single men in the ward. None. Not a one. The stake put on single activities, but I was only added to the list after I had met my future fiance. 2) I know for a fact that the small ones suffer from difficulty in finding a mate. You have to go to regional events to meet a selection of people to suit your fancy. Many of the men in these circumstances who end up going in active often find or become involved with non-LDS women, partly because the choice is limited. This doesn't help their chances of returning to church or attending Mid-Singles Events. 3) The large singles communities have the opposite problem. Too much selection poses a myriad of problems for certain types of individuals. Make no mistake. Tons of Mormon Marriages are happening year round in these communities (example: 20+ engaged couples to be married in the next 3 months from my fiance's single stake). These are the people the system is working for. However the system is somewhat flawed as it really ONLY works for this group, and the church seems to be inadvertently cultivating many other groups of people in the larger mormon communities who don't fair as well. When at BYU (for 7 years during grad school) I often heard the 80/20 rule. That is where 80% of the guys are trying to date 20% of the girls. Simply put, It is true. What is intriguing, and that I often saw, is that YSA mormons for whom the dating game isn't working, have a very high proclivity to blame the other side. Some examples of trends I saw at BYU that are probably magnified due to the nature of University single Wards. A) the Timid. Having a huge dating pool available really hurts those who are timid. I don't know what it is about mormon culture, but we seem to have a larger than fair share. These people find their niche couple of friends and refuse to diversify. Too much selection for those who are interacting means that they can easily look over the timid as there are others who are much more involved. Use the dance floor as an analogy. If there are all of 3 couples dancing, it is easy to see the ones hanging around in the shadows. If you are in the middle of a thousand other couples, you would never notice those hanging back in the shadows. B) The Ward Effect: Scope. I would often go out of my way to get to know every girl in my singles ward while at BYU. I would constantly be asking questions of them about their dating lives. Of those that rarely dated, overwhelmingly they were of the belief that they should be asked out by the guys in the Ward. A majority of the guys in the same ward believed the opposite: That they shouldn't be dating girls in the ward, because a relationship that goes sour ruins all social interaction at all ward activities. This is often referred to peeing in the Pool. It is interesting that most men that believed this said that it was very easy to meet girls outside the ward while the girls often believed that they had no way to meet guys outside the Ward. C) Ward Effect: Competition. Dating does happen in wards despite B. However There is an interesting competition in selection that happens over semester. all it takes 2-3 girls who are friends who are very attractive and very socially outgoing. Suddenly the other girls are realizing that these select group of girls get all the time (hanging out with the guys) and dates. Wards have inadvertently turned the big sea of fish into tons of tiny ponds. D) The player. There are guys, and (lesser extent girls) who are so attractive or 'fun' that they get constant attention from the opposite gender. They operate on a different system than everyone else, taking someone out that would have been a prime candidate in a small community and practically forgetting about them because they are so busy maintaining their social lives and dating schedules. There is a huge diversity here, so I don't want to stereotype, but I have witnessed some of these who do it for fun, guys who only know how to hang out and not court a girl, and still more girls who have no intention of dating other than to have fun. Ironically these types hang out in the large university 'scenes' and in the case of men, have no direction. The women with their head on straight can see this, and therefore steer clear of them. Of course the men don't want to pursue a career that would take them out of the dating mecca and so they continue to stall their career/direction. I met countless guys in this situation. Often nicknamed the 'provo allstar' at BYU. E) Women's Pornography Problem. Yes I went there. The constant anti-porn campaign by the church is creating an interesting phenomenon. Many young women are so militant unforgiving that if a guy has had a problem, he is immediately excluded, whether or not he still has the problem, has seen the bishop, trying to do anything else to get help. What have we done, where we exclude the doctrine of forgiveness to those who seek it simply because it is one of the leading problems? And the more they hear it, the more distrusting they become. Porn is definitely a problem, and all too often they have direct exposure to someone(usually female) who has gotten divorced because the husband had a porn problem. But that doesn't make it OK. Even if a guy is trying to turn his life around, being honest about having done that in the past leads to being dropped in a relationship. A few times of that kind of treatment and the male can't picture himself fitting into any relationship with any LDS women.
  86. This will likely sound like rambling, because it's going to cover so many areas, but as a divorced man of 3 years, I've had quite a bit of "exposure" to a lot of dynamics within the single adult programs and opposing forces facing single adults. (This is also being written LONG after the article was written, and at the bottom of a LOT of postings - so this may never be seen either. LOL) As a church, we are REALLY struggling with how to handle single adults. The single 1 (ONE!) page dedicated to single adults in the handbook of instructions is FILLED with soft words like "may" and "could", with a LOT of discretion given to leaders on how to fulfill the OPTIONAL elements on that page. Basically, nothing is mandated. But is it up to the church to deal with what SHOULD already be foundations that are firmly rooted in the gospel? We have a bishop whose mandate (besides being a judge in Israel) is to be the head of the Aaronic Priesthood. His focus is on the youth, and helping guide the spiritual development of the youth. The youth are our next generation. The church CANNOT supplant what SHOULD be going on in the home, with regards to talks about roles for men and women, and being able to interact with one another. It can provide good guidelines of a religious nature that warns us of perilous times/practices. However, the family is falling apart. Relationships that should be fulfilled within the family are being developed online and without the elements associated with the development of character through those relationships. For instance, TIME used to be spent FACE-TO-FACE with friends, and you would learn mistakes, lessons, forgiveness, negotiations, communications, etc. And we now have people more comfortable communicating through text messages or satisfying momentary and short-lived curiosities about other people at the flick of a mouse, moving from one "friend" to another. We're losing opportunities to LOVE one another through our experiences, and we're looking at others through what they WANT us to see them as. Everyone sees the facade that everyone else is putting up. Meanwhile, we know about the real US, and we subliminally make a comparison to the projected image of users. We don't see other people with their weaknesses except when it's blatantly put before us, and then we exercise judgement. We have turned to "cocooning" and isolated ourselves from one another. We come home from work, click the garage door opener, drive in without talking with our neighbors, flip on the tv set, watch the news with all the stories placed there because "if it bleeds, it leads". We see the worst of humanity on tv, and we are left feeling vulnerable. And guess what? So are all our neighbors and acquaintences! We're all suspicious of each other! That's the stage we have with single adults who are expected to reach out to one another. Some of them have been hurt by those closest to them, and they've lost the ability to allow themselves to be hurt again through relationships. They want SAFE. Men are forgetting how to be men through constant messages in the media, commercials, and feminists whose message trumpets the "progress" of women by measuring against their progress to men, and in the process, stepping on men. Women hear the same message, and expect something more from men. A few posters above were RIGHT ON THE MARK, by stating that the potential of men has to be seen (as Heavenly Father sees them) and they need to be built up, nurtured, etc. by the women as well. Too often our young men and women are given an idealistic view of what the temple marriage relationship will be. We're told that Heavenly Father is always there for us... but when we have our temple marriages, we have this expectation that Heavenly Father will "take care of us", and we don't put enough emphasis on WORKING at our marriages. (see above about a lack of experiences that teach us about relationships with one another). When marriages fail, we VERY EASILY beat ourselves up for failure, and some even resent God for failing us in our marriages. (That's a form of denial folks! And yes, even I went through that post-divorce.) We've become selfish in that we know what we (individually) want, and have our expectations that our needs/wants will be met. Oh, and that communication thing... yeah, those "skills" we had in texting and leaving posts on social media sites is insufficient for maintaining relationships. You don't say what you want, and avoid the impact of those words. There are consequences there, and feelings hurt. And trust is ruined, affecting both parties towards each other, and a feeling of abandonment is felt towards Heavenly Father. Throw in the typical dynamics of a family friendly church, and feelings that failures in marriage is a personal failure in the eyes of others, and it's easy to see how singles can feel like outcasts. Priesthood leaders are hearing the same messages that members are: Men need to get off the stick, avoid pornography, treat women better, women should be treated respectfully, they're sensitive, they'll receive blessings denied to them, etc, and is it any wonder why men don't feel the support from their leaders after divorce? Men often get the brunt of assumptions of blame for a poor relationship, and women speak up more about their feelings, and are supported by other women and leaders more than men are. I once spoke to a member of a stake presidency while being in for a recommend interview. He wanted to know about me - recently divorced. For 50 minutes I talked to him about frustrations I had with the the way the church is failing in certain areas. One of them is the conflicting messages over the pulpit where women keep being told about how their loneliness and absence of blessings in this life (vis-a-vis marriage) through no fault of their own would not be witheld from them in the hereafter. I said to him that if you want to help these women achieve more of these blessings in marriage as a church, we need to be reaching out to the men and helping them feel welcome back. He was stunned, and said, "Gee, I never thought of that." Well, here's your sign! (I received a rather "cool" reception from my bishop during my divorce, despite having served him faithfully for years. That all changed when he saw her lose it in a joint counseling session, and for the first time in a year, I felt some semblance of compassion towards me. He warned me of statistics of single men in the church post-divorce. Yes, I know that. I've been a clerk for 15 years. He told me I'll hurt when hearing talks about families. Yes, bishop, I've already cried as I heard couples talk about how they were able to pull together and turn to Heavenly Father in their trials, and wonder why we (as a couple) couldn't., etc.) I believe the church is truly afraid of offering a gospel oriented group therapy course similar to "DivorceCare" which is held in other churches. There is the fear of people in trouble turning to others in inappropriate ways, but I found that reiterating some basic ground rules to all attendees helps eliminate that. ie. This is not a gripe session about your spouse. This is NOT a hookup session. You are NOT to "buddy up" with people of the opposite sex. etc. I took that class at a church that was heavily anti-Mormon, and yes, you could see they were uncomfortable with me at times, but they also saw me as a child of God who was hurting. The materials in that class was ALWAYS oriented towards reconciliation with our spouses if that was possible, but if not, turning ourselves to the Lord. My poor bishop received the brunt of my frustration about the lack of similar forums after attending my first DivorceCare class, and finding a much more supportive environment there than I did within my own church. (I wasn't trying to beat up on him, but wanted to know why the church didn't offer more in this format.) Okay, the single adult program.... I've seen some unofficial efforts at mid singles where I live, and frankly, I'm saddened that there's not more priesthood support for it, but I'm also seeing some very immature men and women participating in it. I'm older than this program, but have participated in a few activities, and frankly, it's not a very good example of Mormon (or even Christian) behavior at times. I have friends who are 33-37 who are much more comfortable with "the old folks", because of their immature behavior. I see many men who are scared to ask women out, and I see many women who are judgemental towards men. The concept of forgiveness seems to be rather hard to accept and internalize, particularly from women who have been hurt by the sinful behavior of prior spouses. I can understand it! And it makes the effort by men to demonstrate how they have turn their lives around even more difficult, when judgements are exercised upon them. I'm a worthy, righteous man, and very much in demand by women, and have many friends who are women. I could easily take my pick of women, but sadly, so few seem to be marriage minded, or for that matter, working on their own hurt and insecurities. They judge all men with a lens sharpened by their own traumatic experiences, and find it hard to give men a fair chance. And yes, when they're rejected by men that hold some promise, or whose own boorish behavior turns them off, it further sharpens the criticality that they apply to other men. Before being single, I contacted a single adult rep, to try to understand what I was going to be facing, and frankly, what I was told was scary. Sure, as a married man, I "heard horror stories", but I also know that there's often a grain of truth to the stories. I wanted to know for myself. Even my brother, a bishop, told me, "There's a reason why they're single." With that attitude it's no wonder why there's a disparity between married folks and singles in having needs met. Too often single adults also slip into a sense of entitlement, and feel the church owes them a program that entertains them, and too often the church sponsors activities like dances where the environment is NOT conducive to communication (loud music, short time spent with others in a public setting). And a recent event I attended with LDS standards, but unofficial, and attended with singles from other areas proved to demonstrate that what you get out of it is proportional to what you put in. I'm not sure how much effort was made between groups from different geographical areas. (ie, people stuck with their friends/cliques) We need to have our foundation rooted in our Heavenly Father, see others as He sees us, reach out in love knowing full well we may be disappointed, but still having strength from God to get us through our daily challenges. As a church, we need to do more to reach out to those who have fallen by the wayside, and bring them back in love. There are SOOOO many lonely people out there, with little-to-no support from others who are similarly in the same boat. If we are truly instruments in God's hands, then we need to be reaching out to others in love. And be prepared to meet needy people who are starving for attention and love. Build them back up as our Heavenly Father would want us to. Love them as ourselves. And don't burn out in trying to serve others without taking care of ourselves. Learn to not judge... just because we sin differently. (What a great quote!) Nobody is perfect. NOBODY And it's time we stop expecting perfection in others around us, and work on ourselves. Be the kind of people we would like to see in others.
  87. I am an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. An Imperfect Priesthood holder. I grew up in a broken Mormon family. I was a nerdy guy growing up and never knew how to relate to women and all women did was reject me growing up-I even had a young Mormon lady punch me in the stomach one time. I asked her to dance at a youth dance and I was very polite. One day a young man asked me to try to do some sexual things with him. Then, I started experimenting with sexual situations with other young men at the age of 14. My confidence never was good because my dad as a priesthood holder never helped me become a man-never spent time with me. Then, later in life I fell away from the church after entering the Armed Forces. I lived the gay lifestyle-very damaging to my life. I later returned to the church at age 28. I felt awkward in the Mid-Singles Ward and felt a lot of competition from the men my age. The women want a Mr. Perfect Peter Priesthood and I'm sad to say that even the best Latter Day Saint male isn't a perfect man-Your supposed to Love One Another as the savior loves. God didn't say-Reject the few Mormons who are bisexual who are either women or men-There surely needs to be some support for us bisexual women/men in the church and even the ones who are gay or lesbian and Mormon. Now, based on my experiences and age-etc. I have no interest in dating anymore because all women want is a worthy man who has money-learned that from an ex-wife. And all men want is a cool woman who can accept them Imperfect As We All are God's Children striving to get somewhere. In the meantime, I'll just Hold To the Iron Rod-Word of God and safely get home soon!!
  88. What if we had more service activities where we singles are working together to make a difference. Working side by side shows each other who we are. Who builds the closest relationships in a Ward? Those who are working together on behalf of others. How long will rolling waters remain impure? How long will rolling tongues in Wards be able to credibly talk about service singles being misfits, unworthy yet for blessing of marriage etc..? Folks I am a very fit and active 59 year old. Yeah I can take care of myself with the Lord's help. Frankly I am running over the top of most married women. We need to serve the Lord with our whole souls now. Forget ourselves and take His hand now!!! Lets do this thing together...just move forward asap...we do not need married folks or to be married to run up any ladder in this life.
  89. LDS singles can go to family wards or singles wards, whichever they prefer. Now there are older singles wards as well. The Church frankly gives alot of resources to singles programs. They are doing everything they can. The bottom line though, is that nobody is responsible for making YOU feel included, for making YOU feel productive and accomplished in life, for making YOU have bounteous selection and opportunities to date, or anything else. We are responsible for our OWN lives. If anything I think the church helps too much and babies young people around too much. If you are single, take responsibility for your own life and for ENJOYING your own life, whatever it is. Maybe you will get married, maybe you won't, maybe you'll date, maybe you wont (and maybe you don't even care) but the church is not responsible for making sure that your every day is full of sunshine and fulfillment, at any age. YOU ARE.
  90. The following may be one reason why mormon men are going inactive, but there is more to the story. "...These men go inactive because their wards failed to involve them..." Perhaps this is the case sometimes. Perhaps, also, this is a female's perspective on a male's problem. Another reason why men are going inactive is that they feel their roles are unimportant. As an active, 31+, single, temple-recommend-holding, mormon man, I can say that I don't really care whether or not the ward involves me. One struggle I do notice in my down moments is that men see women who want to be men: wearing shoulder pads; marching on priesthood sessions; making sarcastic comments about how 'mormon men only marry a woman's uterus'; an increased desire for females to be both the mother and the career-holder. It's quite confusing, and whenever I sense greater career orientation in a potential interest, I back out immediately. Like it or hate it, ladies, but I don't go there. On a different topic in this article: Another thing that prevents some of us is our observations on divorce rates. They are high, and so if we sense anything wrong in a dating relationship we back out immediately. Many of us simply have no desire to "work through" difficulties that arrive anywhere within the first five dates. They have to go perfectly, or we hit the eject button. There's some more potential reasons why mormon men act the way they do.
  91. Not all Branches and Singles wards in the Church have the advertised 3:1 female to male ratio. I just move from a Singles Branch in North Carolina where its the opposite most of the time. there are timesI've sat in Elders Quorum and counted over 20 return missionaries and men I would call on for a blessing at any time. There is more to the story than just the ratio. There is more to the story than a few paragraphs can tell. Good article though
  92. This biggest problem is the way in which singles are forced to meet. Dances, firesides, and volleyball don't cut it. Did you know that it has been scientifically proven that if you get more than 25 people together in the same room that it becomes antisocial ...a crowd? We are meeting in ways that bring out the very worst of us. Why not meet at people's houses for a game night? Why not organize it so that yje singles in a ward can have a game night with the singles of another ward...and bounce from ward to ward in order to meet as many people as possible? Something must be don...but a better dance or fireside isn't the answer. We've been doing that since square-dances along the Wasatch Valley fell out of fashion.
  93. Many men naturally want to marry someone younger than them and Mid Singles age restrictions make meeting them much more difficult. It also unnecessarily changes the dating culture where women start thinking age differences are "creepy". I've heard some General Authorities talk about the 8+ year differences in age with their wives and are as happy as can be.

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